Transcript
WEBVTT
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Hello and welcome to the Bearded Mystic Podcast, and I'm your host, Rahul N.
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Singh.
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Thank you for taking out the time today to either watch or listen to this podcast episode.
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Today, we will be continuing on with the series Wisdom of the Mystics.
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But before I do begin, there's a few important announcements that I want to make.
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00 AM Eastern Standard Time there is a free virtual meditation session, along with discussion and Q and A for around an hour.
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Please find the details in the show notes and video description below if you're interested in meditation.
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Sometimes we need some personal help in our spirituality, or we have questions that we personally want to ask As a friend, I would love to help you in a one-to-one meeting via Zoom.
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Last month we looked at the teachings of Swami Vivekananda.
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In this episode, we will be looking at the teachings of one of the most important religious teachers in the world.
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His ideas, giving birth to Christianity.
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We are looking at Jesus Christ today, but not according to the Bible, but actually according to the Gospel of Thomas.
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The timing is perfect as today, we are celebrating Christmas, and I like to wish you all a very merry Christmas.
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Let's go deep into these sayings that are found in the gnostic gospel, the Gospel of Thomas.
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Verse one.
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And he said, whoever finds the correct interpretation of these sayings will never die.
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What's interesting about the Gospel of Thomas, before I go into what that verse means is that Jesus speaks as if he is a Taoist or a Buddhist, or a Vedantin.
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He doesn't seem to have the typical christian speak when he is talking in the Gospel of Thomas.
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It is very different in terms of its flavor.
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It's very different in terms of its words.
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It's very deep and meaningful and more or less it takes us to a place where I feel is closest to how Jesus would describe things.
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When I was growing up, I listened to the Bible teachings through school but when I read the Gospel of Thomas, it felt more like Jesus.
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It felt more human and yet divine at the same time.
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And I think that is what makes this text quite unique and this very first verse says everything.
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I think if we only just stick with this one verse, it answers everything you kind of need.
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Let's go into what this verse really means here.
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And it's really like every real beginning of a Vedanta text, it gives you the objective, the end result.
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Here the end result is whoever finds the correct interpretation of these sayings will never die.
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Now it seems that Christ is giving us an insight into what he's expecting from us.
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He's not asking us to just believe.
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He's asking to find the correct interpretation.
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A lot of us want religion or spirituality to be easy, but here we can see already that this is not the way of Christ.
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This is not according to the Gospel of Thomas obviously.
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Now it seems that this gospel has the audacity of a teacher like Jesus already.
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He's come out with a big goal.
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Whoever finds the correct interpretation of these sayings will never die.
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That shows the audacity of a real teacher like Jesus and we do have to understand the metaphors.
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We have to understand what this may mean.
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We have to find the correct interpretation.
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We have to seek that correct interpretation.
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We have to stay with these words.
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Now, for example, when I have gone through these verses, it is not merely that I'm just speaking to you about them right now.
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I spent time with them and I then have given you my views on what that means.
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My interpretation.
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I hope that if I get to the correct interpretation that I will reach that state of that I will never die.
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I will attain moksha or mukti as Jesus is suggesting.
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It's just not enough to focus on the words alone.
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A lot of us do this.
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We take things literally without thinking about what was the context, what was the reason for that, and how can I interpret this today?
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Does this apply even today?
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Like we have to be very honest that some things are cultural and some things are just plain spiritual.
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Whatever is spiritual will stand the test of time.
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But anything that is more or less cultural, we will see that it has very little to do with today.
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If we can't resonate with it culturally, then that says that we can abandon that very teaching.
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Now, the other thing that Jesus is inviting here is that he wants us to enter a deep state of contemplation.
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It's not simply of just saying, well, I'm just going to listen to the priest, or I'm gonna listen to the teacher, and that's it.
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I've got the answer.
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That's not enough.
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If that was enough, then Jesus wouldn't have had to say that.
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He will say, just believe every word I say, and that's it.
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That's final.
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But he says correct interpretation, meaning he knows that his words will have to be truly understood.
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How can they be truly understood?
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Well, we know this from our lessons that we've been learning in The Bhagavad Gita.
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, Essentially, Jesus will say the same thing, that that which is Real is changeless and that which is subject to change is unreal.
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It's not what we really are, nor does it have any reality of its own.
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Now understand what I said there, a reality of its own.
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It has to have a source of its existence.
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It has to have, you could say, a screen to present itself.
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That's where we have to understand that that screen is the Ultimate Reality or what we may refer to as God.
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Nobody can give you the answers.
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Even if I give you my answer here, it's for me.
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I'm just sharing with you my answers.
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But you have to find your own.
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You can listen to my views and my interpretation, but you have to see if it resonates with you.
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Nobody can give you the answers.
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If Jesus is not giving you the answer, what makes us think that somebody else can give it to us?
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Wouldn't Jesus want to give us the answer.
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I mean, inside his sayings, the answer is there, but we have to find out.
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We have to find it.
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They can give you words about it, but you have to find the answer yourself.
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So they can give you explanations like I'm doing.
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They can give you interpretations, their judgments, but ultimately you have to find your understanding, your way.
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When he says whoever finds the correct interpretation of these sayings will never die, this means that the objective here is liberation.
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It's freedom.
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Freedom from suffering, obviously.
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Freedom from also birth and death.
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So going into everlasting life.
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Now as we know, if we say somebody's going to heaven, that is a place therefore, it cannot be the reality that Jesus is talking about.
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Jesus is obviously on about something else.
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When we understand something completely, especially spiritual teachings, we understand that and we realize that there is no such thing as death because life is not contained in the body, but is beyond the body itself.
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To understand the correct interpretation, we will have to transcend the body and mind anyway.
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That's how we need to contemplate.
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A true seeker will be completely dedicated to finding the correct interpretation.
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Only a weak mind will follow the priest or conventional understanding.
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It's easy to follow somebody else.
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Trust me, we find much comfort in it.
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It consoles us.
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It makes us feel safe.
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But finding your own correct interpretation, your own interpretation, then to find out whether it's correct or incorrect, means you have to practice the interpretation.
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It's scary, it's courageous.
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It's creative, but it's not impossible.
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But What I will say is if you follow the conventional understanding, not the mystical understanding, but the conventional, then it will be impossible for you to find liberation.
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You will constantly go through the process of birth and death, and as you can see here, Christ is saying that person will never die.
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That means that he understands the Ultimate Truth and that he's pointing to you that there is something which will never die.
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Verse two.
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Jesus said the seeker should not stop until he finds.
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When he does find he will be disturbed.
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After having been disturbed, he will be astonished.
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Then he will reign over everything.
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As I said in the previous verse, the seeker should not stop until he finds we have to find the answer.
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We must not let anything get in the way.
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Nothing and we can use everything to help us to understand.
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Even something that may seem mundane, even that can help us.
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Sometimes we don't like to follow someone or listen to someone or continue to find the answer because it doesn't feel safe for us, but the seeker never stops.
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Even if it's unknown terrain.
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The seeker will continue.
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The seeker seeks until the seeking ends.
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When the seeker becomes the very Sought.
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The very thing that you're seeking, you end up becoming.
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Actually, it's not that you end up becoming, you discover you are already That.
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As Christ says, one should not stop until they find.
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Never stop until you find the answer.
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The answer, which is unbreakable.
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The answer which cannot change.
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The answer, which will remain regardless of time or location or any other restriction or boundary.
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Anyone that does stop seeking, well, they were never a seeker in the first place.
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If you end up not seeking, then were you really after spiritual Truth?
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I can console you right now and say, yes you were, or yes you are.
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Or in the future I could console you.
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But to be honest, the mentality of a seeker never breaks.
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They will continuously seek.
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They will have the confidence, the commitment to find the answer, to get to the truth.
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Then Jesus says when he does find, he will be disturbed.
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The truth does set you free.
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That's very true.
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I agree with that.
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It does, absolutely.
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But what will you do when you see that this cage of falsehood has been around you?
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The cage that the priest, the politicians, the religious teachers, the scriptures, when all these things have just placed a cage around you, what would you do then?
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What would be the outcome?
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If the truth sets you free, what do you do with that cage?
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First of all, if you have found the truth, you know there was no cage because the thing is, you'll see the lie that you've been living.
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You'll see it.
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It's right in front of you.
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You cannot ignore it.
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It's right there.
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Thinking you are the body and mind, you forget your true nature.
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We all do.
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We all forget our true nature, even though it was so obvious to us.
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We have always been this Formless Awareness, and that is going to disturb us, when we realize we have always been God.
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Do you think that's gonna make you feel free first?
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After years, lifetimes of being told that you are different to that Truth, now you have found that you are not different to the Truth.
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You are one.
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You and the truth are one and the same.
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How is that going to make you feel?
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It's going to disturb you first.
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It's not going to give you peace.
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It's not going to give you bliss.
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It's probably going to take you to the darkest place you've ever been in your life.
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But remember that darkness is only an illusion because the light is already there.
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The Light is already present.
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And then he says after having been disturbed, he will be astonished.
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That person, once they come across the Truth and they embed themselves in the Truth, when they fully absorb themselves into the Truth and dissolve themselves into the Truth, they will be in a state of awe and wonder.
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Their eyes will be full of wonder and great intensity.
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There'll be a sparkle in their eyes.
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Why?
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Because you can sense that they are seeing everything in awe and wonder.
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They are seeing things always for the first time because the last second is never the same as this very second, and neither is this second going to be the same as the next second.
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Forget about minute, even the next moment is never the same as this moment, and you'd be amazed at how close this Formless Awareness is, how close this godliness is.
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You'd be astonished, shocked, amazed.
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How could I not see this?
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It was so obvious, and yet I thought I was so far and in that complete joy, you just find that the Truth has been here all along.
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There's a smile, there's a happiness that doesn't lose its fragrance, it doesn't lose its texture, it doesn't lose its intensity.
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It's always there.
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It's not that, you know, some people say that, oh, you know, the same level of happiness and joy and that intense joy that I had when I discovered the truth is not the same today.
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I would like to just say it's not that actually.
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It's just that you've got used to that joy now.
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It becomes so obvious to you.
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It becomes so, so much part of your life, you can't see life without it.
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What happens is you go from tears to laughter to silence, and that's the journey when you start resting in Formless Awareness.
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This journey is something a lot of us have taken and are taking.
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You'll be astonished by the beauty and the bliss that's emanating from your True Self when you discover the real teachings.
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Then he says, then he will reign over everything.
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That person rules over everything.
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Why?
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Because they rule themselves.
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Once you are able to rule yourself, you ruled everybody.
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Everyone is one and the same as you.
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They are that same godliness that you are.
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So the everything is really only one thing, which is its own Self.
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God itself, Brahman Formless Awareness, and that's the Truth.
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Then verse 3A.
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Jesus said, if your leaders say to you, look, the kingdom is in the sky, then the birds will be there before you are.
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If they say that the kingdom is in the sea, then the fish will be there before you are.
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Rather, the kingdom is within you and it is outside of you.
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That is so Vedantic.
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I dunno what else to say that that is a complete teaching.
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If you just stick with this verse 3A for the rest of your life, if you just stick to this, if you find interpretation for this, you will be free.
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You will be fearless.
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You will understand what you are.
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If you really seek to find the correct interpretation of this one verse, just this one part of the verse.
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You see, religious leaders always look to distract us.
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They will say, look, the kingdom is in the sky.
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It's up above.
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The heavens are in the clouds.
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The pearly gates are there resting upon the cloud, and you'll see a great light there.
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Or they will say, God is in some red mist Well, space was already there before you got there.
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And as Jesus says, the birds are already there before you got there.
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In Punjabi we say 'upar-vala'. We say the one living above, such foolishness.
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Such ignorance.
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The very people that say God is everywhere, start pointing up there.
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This one will know, and they're not meaning one as in this.
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They're actually pointing above.
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There's no God above us.
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When I say that meaning, God alone isn't just above us.
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You see when they say God is up there, heaven is up there and like fools we just blindly believe them.
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We don't think about what they've said.
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We don't even contemplate.
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We just believe it.
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They get one part of a scripture somewhere, they give us that interpretation and we just believe it.
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We don't know what that verse means.
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They don't know what that verse means, and it becomes the blind leading the blind.
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So that's the choice we have to make is whether we want to be led by the blind or whether we want to be led by those that are seekers.
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Even it is better to be led by someone that doesn't know the answer, but is seeking the answer than to follow someone who believes that through their belief that they have the answer.
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Because somebody else told them or that their text is correct only.
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Jesus mocks those very people.
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He says the birds will be there before you are going to be.
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We cannot fly.
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Yet we think that we'll rise up to some God or to some heaven.
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We don't have wings.
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How do we know that the soul will fly up there?
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Have we seen that the soul has wings?
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And if the soul is so light as a feather then surely, it cannot remain in the body.
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You're telling me gravity holds it down?
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These type of beliefs that people give us is not something we should just follow.
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We have to think about it.
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Think about what is being said.
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Then he says, likewise, if anyone says the kingdom is in the sea, then the fish will be there before us.
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Again, he's mocking us.
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And then Christ declares firstly that the kingdom meaning awareness is within you and outside of you.