Wisdom of the Mystics: Guru Kabir Ji

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Hello, and welcome to another episode of The Bearded Mystic Podcast.

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And I'm your host Rahul N Singh.

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Thank you for taking out the time today to either watch or listen to this podcast episode.

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Today, we will be continuing on with the series that is titled The Wisdom Of The Mystics.

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If you would like to support The Bearded Mystic Podcast, you can sign up to our Patreon page and the details are in the show notes and video description below.

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Every Saturday, there is a free meditation class.

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If you would like to join, please find the details in the show notes and video description below.

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Earlier this month, as you know, we had looked into the teachings of the founder of Sikhism Guru Nanak Dev Ji.

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And we looked into the mool mantar and we were very inspired by Guru Nanak Dev Ji's beautiful message, which really highlighted the essence of the Upanishads, the essence of Vedanta and in a such simple but effective manner.

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Today we're going to be looking at some of the poems of Sant Kabir Ji or Satguru Kabir Ji.

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Kabir Ji was also a poet, a Guru in the same time as Guru Nanak Dev Ji.

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Just to let you know, for Kabir Ji's poetry that I've looked at The Weaver's Songs by Penguin Classics.

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So we'll go into some of the poetry right now.

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It's titled The Final State and I'll read the poem completely, and then we will break it down.

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The Final State.

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The ineffable tale of that final, simple state: it's utterly different.

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It can't be weighed on a scale.

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Can't be whittled down.

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It doesn't feel heavy and doesn't feel light.

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It has no rain, no sea, no sun or shade.

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It doesn't contain creation or destruction.

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No life, no death exists in it, no grief, no joy.

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Both solitude and blissful union are absent from it.

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It has no up or down, no high or low.

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It doesn't contain either night or day.

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There's no water, no air, no fire that flares again and again.

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The True Master permeates everything there.

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The eternal one remains unmoving, imperceptible, unknowable.

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You can attain him with the Guru's Grace.

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Kabir says, sacrifice yourself to the Guru and remain ensconced in the true community.

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This is very deep poem.

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Something we will have to go into, but it describes very beautifully that state of Awareness.

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We talk about this state of Awareness, this state of Aham Brahmasmi, we've constantly talked about Tat Tvam Asi - You Are That.

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What is it to feel like being in That?

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Kabir Ji in this poem literally describes it and he calls it the Simple State.

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Let's look at the first few lines.

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The ineffable tale of that final, simple state.

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The ineffable tale.

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Ineffable, we know means overwhelming, marvelous, beyond our comprehension, beyond something we can explain to anyone.

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It's so amazing.

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So astonishing.

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Beyond our description.

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That is what this tale is about.

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That time when you become Awareness, this is what it's describing and he calls it the final, simple state.

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Now, the reason why Kabir Ji calls it 'the final simple state' is because we need to know that once we get to this level of Awareness, when we have attained that level of being in the Formless and we're constantly in the Formless and nothing can be taken out of the Formless nor can something be put into the Formless.

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That is that final, simple state.

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That Awareness which cannot be manipulated, changed, mixed or anything.

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Nothing can happen to that Awareness now.

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When we get to that final state, we can recognize it completely through this great poetry of Kabir Ji.

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And he says, it's It's not like your normal waking day-to-day life.

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Yes.

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Waking day-to-day life happens in this state, but it is not that state.

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Yeah.

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It happens within that state, but not that state.

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We need to really understand the language here.

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It's very nuanced and very deep, but we can understand this.

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So it's utterly different.

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See in our waking state everything is changing.

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Everything is subject to being one thing or another.

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Everything relies on other things to be itself.

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But in this one, it's utterly different.

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It is beyond change.

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Kabir Ji says it can't be weighed on a scale.

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Normally we can weight things on a scale.

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We can weigh our experiences.

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We can look at the quality of an experience.

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We can look at the quality of a product.

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We can look at the quantity of a product.

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We can see how much it weighs.

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We can see how many pounds it is, how many ounces it is.

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But this state cannot be measured in any way.

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It cannot be weighed on a scale.

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You cannot say, I am 20% enlightened.

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I am 30% enlightened.

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Either you are, or you're not.

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This final state cannot be weighed on a scale and it cannot be whittled down.

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You cannot change it in any way.

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You cannot break it down.

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You cannot peel it away.

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You cannot cut it away.

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It is complete as it is.

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It doesn't feel heavy and doesn't feel light.

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Sometimes when you're going through a tough day, the day feels heavy on your shoulders.

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It feels heavy on your mind.

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Here you don't feel that.

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And it doesn't feel light.

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Sometimes we meditate and we say we feel light again, we feel that bliss has made us feel light and easy.

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But here he is saying that final state is neither that also.

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This is why the saints and sages, they're not impressed by our words . Basically Kabir ji's doing here is saying what it is not.

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More so That than what it actually is.

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Because what it actually is, as he said, is utterly different.

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How can words communicate this?

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When you're in Awareness, when you've actually got into Awareness and you understand that there is only Awareness, you've identified completely, that Awareness only is, even the identification disappear.

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Because there's no need for Awareness to say that I am Awareness.

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So it doesn't feel heavy and doesn't feel light.

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Anyone that tells you love and light is the way, they're fooling you.

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Kabir Ji did not like people who would fool others.

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He was very much against this.

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He continues.

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It has no rain, no sea, no sun or shade.

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It doesn't contain creation or destruction.

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We know that none of these elements are in that Awareness, are in that Formless state, are in that simple state.

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He used the word simple remember.

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Keep it simple.

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Don't complicate it.

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Don't complicate the enlightened state.

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It is simple.

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There is no creation or destruction in It.

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Therefore there's none of this world that we see, this transactional reality is not in that Ultimate Reality.

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Yeah, the Ultimate Reality can contain the transactional reality, the relative reality, the reality of exchange, but that relative reality, transactional reality cannot be the Ultimate Reality.

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The Ultimate Reality is beyond that.

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And therefore, if there's no creation or destruction, Kabir ji makes it clear that there's no life, no death exists in it.

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That simple state.

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There's no life and there's no death.

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There's no living, no dying.

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There's no birth.

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There's no rebirth.

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There's no heaven.

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There's no hell.

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There's no now or after.

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Once we get rid of creation, we get rid of time and space.

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We get rid of location.

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We get rid of place, destination.

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Therefore he says, because there's no life and no death, there's no grief and no joy.

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Remember it's a simple state, no grief and no joy.

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There's no need to feel ecstatic in that simple state because that simple state doesn't require us to feel ecstatic and neither can there be grief because there's no death.

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Who is going to die?

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That simple state is everything.

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It's everyone's basic experience that they do not know that they experience.

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Then he says both solitude and blissful union are absent from it.

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So if you have people that love to be in solitude like me, that sometimes of the solitude of meditation, we don't feel this in this simple state.

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And again, if you're like me, you love the blissful union of being in that Formless, in that Brahman again, it's absent from it.

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That simple state doesn't require it.

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It doesn't even have it.

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You cannot experience it in that.

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You cannot create an experience from it.

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Like I often say that I have the mind of a Gyani, but a heart of a bhagat.

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I'm completely a devotee by heart and by my mind, I'm a complete Gyani.

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I want to know more.

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I want to exercise my intellect and it's an actual beautiful union between the two.

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And I think Kabir Ji is also hinting upon those lines that because the solitude of Gyana and then the expansive and union of devotion.

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You don't need both of those things.

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Those things are methods that eventually will collapse in realization.

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It has no up nor down.

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There's no where for it to go up.

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Nowhere for it to go down because there's no creation.

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Even if we measure experience, there's no higher experience, no lower experience, you cannot feel elated nor can you feel deflated.

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There's none of that in this.

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It doesn't contain either night or day.

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If there's no time, if there's no life, no death, then there's no night or day.

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If there's no creation or destruction, there's no day or night.

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Therefore again, making us understand that it's not the dark night of your soul, nor is it the day of realization.

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There's none of this.

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There's no day of enlightenment and there's no dark night of the soul, where we go through a lot of issues and we face our inner conflict.

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It doesn't contain any of that.

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This simple state.

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There's no water, no air, no fire that flares again and again.

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Making us understand that it's beyond the elements of nature.

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Then Kabir Ji takes a turn and he says the True Master permeates everything here.

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Now the True Master is the wisdom, the inner guru.

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That is what Kabir Ji is referring to, that the True Master permeates everything there.

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In that simple state, the True Master is there.

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That Gyana is there.

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That knowledge is there.

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That wisdom is there.

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The Eternal One remains unmoving, imperceptible, unknowable.

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If you know it, then it becomes another.

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Or the other.

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Therefore, it's unknowable because it is what you are.

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It's imperceptible.

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These senses of perception, even if they're cleansed enough, even if they are clean through constant meditation, even then this state is imperceptible.

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It cannot be perceived through any way, because there's no creation, no destruction.

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There's no elements.

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There's no nature.

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And it's unmoving since there's no time or space because there's no creation, therefore is unmoving.

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Where will it move to?

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If it has to move, that means that it can be in two locations, but it is in no location.

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You can attain him or it with the Guru's Grace.

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Now here, the Guru's Grace is that teaching of the Guru that takes you there.

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The method of the guru that takes you there.

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Yeah.

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That's the Grace.

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When you receive that knowledge for the first time, that wisdom for the first time, that takes you to that unmoving, imperceptible unknowable state.

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That final, simple state.

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The eternal one remains.

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For eternity.

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And you can attain this when it says attain.

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It doesn't mean that it is another either.

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What it's saying is that you realize that it is the only thing in existence or non-existence too.

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With the Guru's Grace, that's why it's very important.

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You know, nowadays we can become quite worried about gurus and we can be worried about their intentions, but this is a sign of a true guru.

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If you really want to know who a real teacher is or a real guide, they will tell you about this simple state.

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And they will say to you that you can get there.

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If someone says to you that you cannot get there, I would humbly just leave because they probably want to take you for a ride.

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Or someone will say that you're not ready for it.

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Now, if you're not ready for it inquire, whether it can be realized right now.

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If the person says, yes, it can be realized right now, but you are not at that point, where you can realize it right now and there has to be a process, that person is being genuine with you.

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As long as they can say that you can realize it right now and you have all the capability to realize it right now, I would go with them.

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If someone tries to tell you that it can't be realized it's difficult, maybe in the next lifetime.

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You know what, in this lifetime, you let go of that person and leave and go out the door as quick as possible, because they will take you for a ride.

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They will take each and every Dollar, Pound, Euro, Rupee that you have.

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This is a way to recognize the True Guru is the one that tells you about this final, simple state and tells you that you can achieve this.

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You are this, therefore it can take no time, but it's up to you.

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Whether you want to let go of what you think you are and become what it is.

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So that remains in you.

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Then the Guru's Grace works when you are completely ready for it and being ready for it is surrender.

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That is what we call samarpan or surrendering to the Guru.

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That's what that means.

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When you're willing to let go of your identity, to get rid of all identification to the body and mind, and to become this.

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That doesn't mean that you will no longer feel like you're the body and mind.

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No, but what you will understand is the feeling is not to be identified with.

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That's all.

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It doesn't mean that you will not feel the body, it does not mean your mind will not recognize that this is Rahul's body.

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Of course it will, but it will no longer identify that Rahul is the body.

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Yeah.

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In fact, there is no body and there's no Rahul.

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That's what is understood, when we enter that final, simple state.

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Then Kabir says, sacrifice yourself to the Guru.

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Sacrifice yourself, meaning get rid of your identification to this body and mind, sacrifice all your knowledge, all your wisdom, everything to the Guru.

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When you find your guru, when you find your teacher, let go of everything.

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I'll explain my own experience.

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I still recall the time when I let go of everything I thought I was at my Guru's feet.

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I remember that day so clearly, and it's not that I got everything in that moment.

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I recognize that I sacrifice everything.

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I said, everything I have is for my Guru and still is today.

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That has not gone.

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I sacrifice everything to my Guru and that has not gone.

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And then it was only months, maybe years later when I had that dissolution of self.

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I offered my self to the Guru but the Guru didn't take it straight away.

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Maybe with the understanding that I still had a little bit more work to do.

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And when my Guru finally accepted what I had offered, which was my self.

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Once He accepted it, then He told me I had reached.

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Sacrifice yourself to the Guru.

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Once the Guru takes your identification, the guru at the same time starts working on what you really are.

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Suddenly you start finding experiences occur where you no longer feel like this little self, but there is a larger self within this.

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Remain ensconced in the True Community.

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What this means is remain settled, remain established, remain in the shelter in the true community.

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Now, what is the true community?

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Something like we're doing with this podcast, anyone that's on my discord or you're signed up to my Patreon, you're investing in the community.

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You attend my TikTok lives or YouTube lives, or you attend the meditation class.

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You're part of the community.

00:17:10.258 --> 00:17:11.337
And this is what it means.

00:17:11.337 --> 00:17:13.198
You settle in that true community.

00:17:13.478 --> 00:17:17.337
It's only true, when we talk about that final, simple state.

00:17:17.607 --> 00:17:27.657
If we're talking about things here and there, then it's not the true community, meaning that it's not that in the true community, you only speak about spirituality.

00:17:27.657 --> 00:17:32.907
No, that's not what I'm saying, but what I'm saying is that takes the majority of the time and attention.

00:17:33.178 --> 00:17:35.428
You remain settled in that true community.

00:17:35.728 --> 00:17:39.057
That true community of yourself and the simple state.

00:17:39.119 --> 00:17:49.470
Once other people have realized this same simple state, this final, simple state, once they realized it, they will recognize that you've realized it and that creates the community.

00:17:49.740 --> 00:18:02.940
We go through that through meditation, through remembrance, through listening to pious thoughts, through serving others in the community, not just people who know what the Formless is or what Brahman is.

00:18:03.220 --> 00:18:03.650
No.

00:18:03.920 --> 00:18:08.200
Anybody and everybody, we serve others in that sameness.

00:18:08.470 --> 00:18:09.970
And that's what it's all about.

00:18:10.210 --> 00:18:15.220
We study the scriptures, we study the books that tell us about what we really are.

00:18:15.490 --> 00:18:17.200
So that's what be look at.

00:18:17.230 --> 00:18:18.549
That's what we explore.

00:18:18.819 --> 00:18:22.680
The next poem by Kabir ji and it's titled meditation.

00:18:22.950 --> 00:18:25.680
Recollect him first in your mind.

00:18:25.950 --> 00:18:27.779
No one else compares with him.

00:18:28.049 --> 00:18:30.450
Nobody can measure his full extent.

00:18:30.750 --> 00:18:33.180
He knows no beginning and no end.

00:18:33.480 --> 00:18:36.779
Impossible to tell if he has a form or not.

00:18:37.109 --> 00:18:39.750
His lightness or heaviness cannot be weighed.

00:18:40.019 --> 00:18:43.009
Neither hunger nor thirst, neither sun nor shade.

00:18:43.279 --> 00:18:47.119
He exists in everything without sorrow, without happiness.

00:18:47.390 --> 00:18:50.289
He's Brahman- unmanifest unlimited.

00:18:50.589 --> 00:18:53.710
He permeates everything as absolute knowledge.

00:18:54.017 --> 00:18:56.217
I've contemplated him at length.

00:18:56.487 --> 00:18:58.777
There's no one else like Rama.

00:18:59.047 --> 00:19:00.906
So we'll go through this again.

00:19:01.201 --> 00:19:03.541
Recollect him first in your mind.

00:19:03.811 --> 00:19:05.551
No one else compares with him.

00:19:05.582 --> 00:19:07.862
What is this him that he's referring to?

00:19:07.862 --> 00:19:13.642
When he says him again with the pronouns, remember at the time, when this was translated.

00:19:13.912 --> 00:19:15.711
' Him' has been a common word.

00:19:15.711 --> 00:19:19.612
He has been a common pronoun, but we can say 'It'.

00:19:19.882 --> 00:19:23.622
Recollect It, meaning Brahman, first in your mind.

00:19:23.892 --> 00:19:26.021
So it has to begin with the mind.

00:19:26.291 --> 00:19:32.382
Remember this Formless, remember this Awareness and keep thinking about this Awareness.

00:19:32.382 --> 00:19:35.011
Keep thinking about Brahman in your mind.

00:19:35.281 --> 00:19:37.082
No one else compares with It.

00:19:37.412 --> 00:19:39.432
No one else can compare to Brahman.

00:19:39.701 --> 00:19:45.981
You find that anything that you put against Brahman dissolves away because only Brahman is Supreme.

00:19:46.251 --> 00:19:48.051
Only the formless is Supreme.

00:19:48.321 --> 00:19:50.632
Nobody can measure his full extent.

00:19:50.902 --> 00:19:52.842
Neither Brahma, Vishnu, Mahesh (Shiva).

00:19:53.037 --> 00:19:54.957
They cannot measure his full extent.

00:19:55.227 --> 00:19:57.446
He knows no beginning, no end.

00:19:57.717 --> 00:19:59.126
It doesn't have any beginning.

00:19:59.126 --> 00:20:00.297
It doesn't have an end.

00:20:00.567 --> 00:20:03.777
Impossible to tell if he has a form or not.

00:20:04.017 --> 00:20:06.237
We cannot say that Brahman has a form.

00:20:06.446 --> 00:20:08.757
Neither can we say he does not have a form.

00:20:09.027 --> 00:20:10.017
We do not know.

00:20:10.227 --> 00:20:15.386
We cannot say because if we say it has a form, we've compartmentalized It.

00:20:15.656 --> 00:20:19.537
If we say it doesn't have a form, we've also compartmentalised It.

00:20:19.717 --> 00:20:23.047
Then we may see it as empty space, then we miss it.

00:20:23.317 --> 00:20:27.146
There's a deeper intuition that is required to understand the poetry of Kabir Ji.

00:20:27.416 --> 00:20:32.277
Then he says his lightness or heaviness cannot be weighed like the previous poem.

00:20:32.547 --> 00:20:34.376
There's no heaviness or lightness there.

00:20:34.646 --> 00:20:37.557
Neither hunger nor thirst, neither sun nor shade.

00:20:37.826 --> 00:20:40.346
None of that exists in this state.

00:20:40.616 --> 00:20:43.277
None of this can be It - this Brahman.

00:20:43.547 --> 00:20:46.997
It exists in everything without sorrow, without happiness.

00:20:47.267 --> 00:20:51.017
Beyond pleasure and pain, beyond happiness and sorrow.

00:20:51.287 --> 00:20:53.686
Beyond all opposites.

00:20:53.957 --> 00:20:55.547
It exists in everything.

00:20:55.817 --> 00:20:56.747
It is Brahman.

00:20:57.017 --> 00:20:58.576
Unmanifest, unlimited.

00:20:58.676 --> 00:21:02.596
Limitless and unmanifest, it cannot be manifested into anything.

00:21:02.866 --> 00:21:05.707
It permeates everything as absolute knowledge.

00:21:05.727 --> 00:21:09.886
Remember we talked about the True Master permeates everything there.

00:21:10.126 --> 00:21:14.807
Here the same thing is being established, but here we are understanding what it means.

00:21:15.076 --> 00:21:17.717
It permeates everything as absolute knowledge.

00:21:17.896 --> 00:21:19.106
Absolute Gyana.

00:21:19.376 --> 00:21:23.336
The Gyana of the Absolute that's what it's talking about.

00:21:23.606 --> 00:21:25.707
I've contemplated it at length.

00:21:25.977 --> 00:21:29.247
Kabir Ji's constantly thought about it, at length.

00:21:29.517 --> 00:21:30.836
It requires time.

00:21:31.136 --> 00:21:34.467
It requires us to spend time on this.

00:21:34.676 --> 00:21:36.446
We can't just get it instantly.

00:21:36.656 --> 00:21:39.686
By listening to this podcast doesn't mean you're just going to get it.

00:21:39.896 --> 00:21:40.497
No.

00:21:40.767 --> 00:21:46.836
Even after listening to this podcast or watching this podcast, we have to contemplate about it.

00:21:47.106 --> 00:21:52.336
Whenever we get a moment spare, we think about Brahman, we contemplate about Brahman.

00:21:52.561 --> 00:21:55.481
There's no one else like Rama.

00:21:55.682 --> 00:22:00.122
Rama meaning this Brahman, this Formless, this Awareness.

00:22:00.392 --> 00:22:01.622
There's no one else.

00:22:01.892 --> 00:22:04.382
No one else will come close to that.

00:22:04.652 --> 00:22:08.432
Even if you think your physical guru will not come close to that.

00:22:08.701 --> 00:22:12.092
Even the physical Guru will tell you Brahman is everything.

00:22:12.362 --> 00:22:14.311
This formless is everything.

00:22:14.582 --> 00:22:15.031
Okay.

00:22:15.301 --> 00:22:17.162
That's a very nice meditation.

00:22:17.192 --> 00:22:19.142
Very beautiful thought.

00:22:19.412 --> 00:22:21.112
Now another poem.

00:22:21.382 --> 00:22:25.791
And you can see that there's a link in what I've presented through the poetry here.

00:22:26.061 --> 00:22:27.862
This is called the Simple State.

00:22:28.132 --> 00:22:29.932
Listen, you saints.

00:22:30.051 --> 00:22:32.152
I see that the world is crazy.

00:22:32.422 --> 00:22:35.451
When I tell the truth, people run to beat me up.

00:22:35.721 --> 00:22:37.642
When I tell lies, they believe me.

00:22:37.912 --> 00:22:41.771
I've seen the pious ones, the ritual mongers, they bathe at dawn.

00:22:41.771 --> 00:22:44.362
They kill the True Self and worship rocks.

00:22:44.632 --> 00:22:45.561
They know nothing.

00:22:45.832 --> 00:22:48.561
I've seen many masters and teachers.

00:22:48.832 --> 00:22:50.771
They read their book, their Qu'ran.

00:22:51.041 --> 00:22:53.771
They teach many students their business tricks.

00:22:54.041 --> 00:22:55.271
That's all they know.

00:22:55.541 --> 00:22:58.211
They sit at home in pretentious poses.

00:22:58.541 --> 00:23:00.521
Their minds are full of vanity.

00:23:00.791 --> 00:23:03.491
They begin to worship brass and stone.

00:23:03.761 --> 00:23:05.892
They're so proud of their pilgrimages.

00:23:06.162 --> 00:23:07.842
They wear caps and beads.

00:23:07.872 --> 00:23:11.172
They paint their brows with the cosmetics of holiness.

00:23:11.442 --> 00:23:16.211
They forget the true words, and the songs of witness, the moment they sung them.

00:23:16.481 --> 00:23:19.241
They haven't heard the news of the self.

00:23:19.577 --> 00:23:21.872
The Hindu says Rama's dear to them.

00:23:22.142 --> 00:23:23.912
The Muslims say it's Rahim.

00:23:24.182 --> 00:23:26.342
They go to war and kill each other.

00:23:26.551 --> 00:23:28.771
No one knows the secret of things.

00:23:29.041 --> 00:23:33.192
They do their rounds from door to door selling their magical formulas.

00:23:33.461 --> 00:23:35.988
They're vain about their reputations.

00:23:36.167 --> 00:23:39.617
All the students will drown with their teachers at the last moment.

00:23:39.647 --> 00:23:40.607
They'll repent.

00:23:40.877 --> 00:23:43.438
Kabir says, listen, you saintly men.

00:23:43.617 --> 00:23:45.448
Forget all this vanity.

00:23:45.718 --> 00:23:48.417
I've said it so many times, but nobody listens.

00:23:48.597 --> 00:23:51.057
You must merge into the simple state.

00:23:51.387 --> 00:23:52.048
Simply.

00:23:52.317 --> 00:23:53.218
I love Kabir Ji.

00:23:53.438 --> 00:23:55.228
Kabir Ji is one of my favorite poets.

00:23:55.327 --> 00:23:56.228
We'll go through this poem.

00:23:56.228 --> 00:23:58.887
It's really deep, it requires a bit of attention.

00:23:59.157 --> 00:24:12.637
But remember when he criticizes a particular religion, he's not actually criticizing the religion per se, but our actions that we associate with religion, that's what he's criticizing.

00:24:12.907 --> 00:24:14.798
And he's saying that that's not religion.

00:24:14.798 --> 00:24:16.597
Religion is that simple state.

00:24:16.867 --> 00:24:22.657
If you identify that you are a particular religion, then you're removing yourself from that simple state.

00:24:22.928 --> 00:24:24.988
Here he says, look at the respect first.

00:24:25.008 --> 00:24:27.107
He says, listen, you saints.

00:24:27.377 --> 00:24:31.278
So he's giving respect to these holy people.

00:24:31.518 --> 00:24:34.428
He's giving respect to them, but he wants them to listen.

00:24:34.583 --> 00:24:36.472
I see that the world is crazy.

00:24:36.742 --> 00:24:37.042
Yeah.

00:24:37.222 --> 00:24:41.482
The rituals that we do in this world, whether it's any type of ritual.

00:24:41.752 --> 00:24:45.113
Praying five times a day, praying in the morning and the evening.

00:24:45.383 --> 00:24:47.073
Waking up at amrit-vela.

00:24:47.343 --> 00:24:49.542
Doing any of these things, these are rituals.

00:24:49.813 --> 00:24:51.163
And he's saying that's the world.

00:24:51.432 --> 00:24:54.042
Kabir Ji says, I see the world is crazy.

00:24:54.313 --> 00:24:56.413
And then he explains why they are crazy.

00:24:56.682 --> 00:25:01.452
When I tell the truth, people run to beat me up because nobody really wants the truth.

00:25:01.722 --> 00:25:05.353
Everyone says, ah, we are true seekers.

00:25:05.563 --> 00:25:06.913
We are seekers of the truth.

00:25:06.942 --> 00:25:07.932
We want the truth.

00:25:08.202 --> 00:25:11.803
But actually those that tell the truth are always condemned.

00:25:11.803 --> 00:25:14.863
Then they're never accepted by the majority.

00:25:15.133 --> 00:25:21.863
By the cheerleaders of religion or the so-called caretakers of religion.

00:25:22.133 --> 00:25:30.813
I get them all the time on my TikTok, where they claim that I have the wrong understanding of the Bhagavad Gita and they may be right, they may be wrong.

00:25:31.083 --> 00:25:33.032
I don't actually have a problem with them saying I'm wrong.

00:25:33.353 --> 00:25:37.952
It's when they can't defend what they say or they can't argue their point.

00:25:38.222 --> 00:25:46.113
Today in the world, you may not be beaten up, but you could be condemned by a comment on a social media post.

00:25:46.383 --> 00:25:48.903
When I tell the truth, people run to beat me up.

00:25:49.173 --> 00:25:51.212
When I tell lies, they believe me.

00:25:51.482 --> 00:26:02.853
Say anyone that follows a mass religion or a teacher that has a lot of followers in the world, they are most likely not telling lies, but they're not telling you the truth.

00:26:02.913 --> 00:26:03.573
Basically.

00:26:03.843 --> 00:26:06.022
They're not telling you the complete truth.

00:26:06.202 --> 00:26:08.212
They're not telling you about that simple state.

00:26:08.482 --> 00:26:17.123
So when you tell lies that this state would get you to heaven, or this will get you to have a better human birth in your next life.

00:26:17.393 --> 00:26:18.353
You'll believe them.

00:26:18.623 --> 00:26:24.903
If they say, do this ritual, do this mantra, do this Pooja, do this prayer five times a day.

00:26:24.903 --> 00:26:26.133
You will get this.

00:26:26.403 --> 00:26:27.393
You'll believe them.

00:26:27.663 --> 00:26:29.702
You don't know if it will happen or not.

00:26:29.972 --> 00:26:32.442
You're just going by hearsay, but you will do it.

00:26:32.712 --> 00:26:38.292
Then he says, I've seen the pious ones, the ritual mongers, they bathe at dawn.

00:26:38.563 --> 00:26:41.673
So even though they are pious, they may have good intentions.

00:26:42.012 --> 00:26:47.173
Those that keep going towards rituals, they killed the true self and worship rocks.

00:26:47.357 --> 00:26:58.817
It's very important to do murti puja, I understand the importance, but once you know the formless, once you know about that simple state, is it necessary to worship the rocks?

00:26:59.117 --> 00:27:01.518
To worship anything of form?

00:27:01.788 --> 00:27:04.038
Maybe in the beginning it can stabilize us.

00:27:04.038 --> 00:27:07.837
I understand that, but eventually do we need that?

00:27:08.107 --> 00:27:14.167
I'm not saying that I expect you that after this podcast, you'll put your mandir away or you won't enter your mandir.

00:27:14.258 --> 00:27:15.428
No, I'm not saying that.

00:27:15.558 --> 00:27:17.096
The nuance here is this.

00:27:17.356 --> 00:27:19.797
They kill the true self and worship rocks.

00:27:20.057 --> 00:27:25.727
What it means there is that anything that doesn't contain the true self is lifeless like a rock.

00:27:25.804 --> 00:27:27.529
A rock appears lifeless.

00:27:27.799 --> 00:27:29.250
We have to understand the metaphor.

00:27:29.519 --> 00:27:35.880
When they say they killed the true self remember if in the rock you can still see the true self, then you're okay.

00:27:36.150 --> 00:27:39.720
If in the murti you can see the true self, you're okay.

00:27:39.990 --> 00:27:42.299
If in the Kaaba, you can see the true self.

00:27:42.480 --> 00:27:43.170
You're fine.

00:27:43.230 --> 00:27:43.950
You're okay.

00:27:44.220 --> 00:27:47.654
But if you don't then it's just a rock.

00:27:47.684 --> 00:27:49.365
It's just an object.

00:27:49.634 --> 00:27:52.875
And as Kabir Ji says in the next line, they know nothing.

00:27:53.144 --> 00:27:54.164
They don't know anything.

00:27:54.404 --> 00:27:57.674
They look pious, they seem great.

00:27:57.944 --> 00:28:00.375
You look at them and you say, look how devoted they are.

00:28:00.644 --> 00:28:06.394
They're bathe every day in the Ganges or they do their puja-path every morning.

00:28:06.664 --> 00:28:08.765
They go to their satsang every week.

00:28:09.035 --> 00:28:11.065
Look how much love they have for their Guru.

00:28:11.335 --> 00:28:12.474
But they know nothing.

00:28:12.744 --> 00:28:14.724
If they don't know their true self.

00:28:14.994 --> 00:28:19.005
I've seen many masters and teachers, they read their book, their Qu'ran.

00:28:19.275 --> 00:28:22.005
They teach many students, their business tricks.

00:28:22.138 --> 00:28:24.999
Kabir Ji is slightly offensive actually.

00:28:25.269 --> 00:28:27.128
What he is saying is harsh words.

00:28:27.398 --> 00:28:33.499
And a lot of people like to say, speak sweetly and that's more important, but actually.

00:28:33.739 --> 00:28:34.098
No.

00:28:34.098 --> 00:28:37.519
Sometimes you have to tell people that a spade is a spade.

00:28:37.788 --> 00:28:43.048
You can't tell someone that a spade is a spoon or a spade is a spatula.

00:28:43.368 --> 00:28:45.499
They're not, it's two different things.

00:28:45.769 --> 00:28:48.739
He says I've seen many masters and teachers.

00:28:48.826 --> 00:28:50.905
Kabir Ji is talking about his experience.

00:28:51.175 --> 00:28:53.306
He's not talking about someone else's experience.

00:28:53.306 --> 00:28:54.266
He's talking about his own.

00:28:54.266 --> 00:28:56.486
I've seen them, they read their book.

00:28:56.596 --> 00:29:05.615
Whether it's the Vedas, the Upanishads, the Gita, the Quran, the Bible, anything, but all they're doing is teaching their students, their business tricks.

00:29:05.885 --> 00:29:07.105
This is what happens to you.

00:29:07.105 --> 00:29:08.425
This is what will happen to you.

00:29:08.756 --> 00:29:11.346
This is the code that you have to follow.

00:29:11.346 --> 00:29:12.846
These are the commandments.

00:29:13.115 --> 00:29:14.885
That's called business tricks.

00:29:15.155 --> 00:29:17.163
They're not getting you to the simple state.

00:29:17.343 --> 00:29:19.353
They're saying, do this then you will get this.

00:29:19.623 --> 00:29:22.123
Have faith in the Lord and all your sins will go away.

00:29:22.123 --> 00:29:24.792
Accept Christ and all your sins will go away.

00:29:25.063 --> 00:29:26.353
That's a business trick.

00:29:26.623 --> 00:29:29.883
Go to this guru and all your problems will be solved.

00:29:30.153 --> 00:29:31.413
That's a business trick.

00:29:31.682 --> 00:29:33.932
Come to this Guru, you realize the truth.

00:29:34.113 --> 00:29:35.313
That's a business trick.

00:29:35.583 --> 00:29:36.752
That's all they know.

00:29:36.843 --> 00:29:37.803
That's what Kabir Ji says.

00:29:37.803 --> 00:29:38.432
That's all they know.

00:29:38.462 --> 00:29:39.663
Just business tricks.

00:29:39.932 --> 00:29:41.913
How to get you trapped.

00:29:42.182 --> 00:29:46.608
Remember, once a guru is done with you, then they tell you to go away.

00:29:46.699 --> 00:29:48.169
They tell you they don't need you.

00:29:48.439 --> 00:29:54.199
Or they will say, you are your own teacher in your own right now, go and spread the teaching.

00:29:54.469 --> 00:29:58.739
They'll never keep you restricted to just the teacher or to the community.

00:29:59.009 --> 00:30:01.229
They will tell you to go and share this message.

00:30:01.499 --> 00:30:04.949
Then he says, they sit at home in pretentious poses.

00:30:05.219 --> 00:30:06.568
In whatever pose they do.

00:30:06.778 --> 00:30:07.699
It's pretentious.

00:30:07.969 --> 00:30:09.528
Their minds are full of vanity.

00:30:09.528 --> 00:30:12.169
This can be looked at the yoga industry today.

00:30:12.439 --> 00:30:14.269
They do the pretentious poses.

00:30:14.479 --> 00:30:21.919
They think yoga is about doing some exercise of the physical body, but the real yoga is about meditation.

00:30:22.128 --> 00:30:25.788
Getting ready for meditation and meditation of what?

00:30:25.969 --> 00:30:27.469
That final, simple state.

00:30:27.499 --> 00:30:28.638
That is samadhi.

00:30:28.909 --> 00:30:30.709
But these people are full of vanity.

00:30:30.989 --> 00:30:39.749
Look good in yoga leggings or whatever they call them, or let me look like I have a six pack and show off this body that I do yoga in.

00:30:40.019 --> 00:30:41.398
That's vanity.

00:30:41.669 --> 00:30:43.828
They begin to worship brass and stone.

00:30:44.098 --> 00:30:46.019
They're so proud of their pilgrimages.

00:30:46.209 --> 00:30:47.038
It's all vain.

00:30:47.308 --> 00:30:48.568
Look how much I do.

00:30:48.808 --> 00:30:50.068
Look how much I worship.

00:30:50.338 --> 00:30:52.888
Look my murtis are made of gold.

00:30:53.159 --> 00:30:56.278
Does that mean your God is more sophisticated?

00:30:56.548 --> 00:30:59.848
Does that mean that your God is much better?

00:31:00.088 --> 00:31:00.838
Evolved?

00:31:01.108 --> 00:31:08.628
A Krishna in simple clay or Krishna in exquisite gold is the same Krishna.

00:31:08.898 --> 00:31:15.058
But the one that identifies gold as Krishna or the clay as Krishna, they both are fools.

00:31:15.328 --> 00:31:16.558
That's the reality.

00:31:16.828 --> 00:31:22.618
As Kabir Ji says, they forget the real thing, that final, simple state.

00:31:22.888 --> 00:31:24.328
They wear caps and beads.

00:31:24.328 --> 00:31:27.269
They paint their brows with the cosmetics of holiness.

00:31:27.538 --> 00:31:29.588
You notice those people straight away.

00:31:29.858 --> 00:31:31.838
They'll have markings on their heads.

00:31:32.108 --> 00:31:33.459
They'll wear robes.

00:31:33.729 --> 00:31:36.338
It's just as he says, cosmetic.

00:31:36.338 --> 00:31:38.618
It's makeup, it's accessories.

00:31:38.888 --> 00:31:39.818
It's a dress code.

00:31:40.088 --> 00:31:40.749
Nothing more.

00:31:40.749 --> 00:31:42.189
It doesn't mean that you're holy.

00:31:42.459 --> 00:31:47.499
It doesn't mean that you're more connected to the Supreme or you know your true self.

00:31:47.769 --> 00:31:52.388
These are just things to remind you of the True Self, but they are not the True Self.

00:31:52.659 --> 00:31:54.489
It's not that doing these things are wrong.

00:31:54.759 --> 00:31:58.419
It's about when we ignore the Ultimate Reality.

00:31:58.682 --> 00:32:02.194
They forget the true words and the songs of witness.

00:32:02.464 --> 00:32:03.958
Witness meaning Awareness.

00:32:04.228 --> 00:32:05.788
The moment they sung them.

00:32:06.057 --> 00:32:08.397
They haven't heard the news of the self.

00:32:08.667 --> 00:32:14.627
You see people, they just chant mantras or they sing bhajans or they do their prayers, they sing hymns.

00:32:14.897 --> 00:32:16.067
They do all this.

00:32:16.337 --> 00:32:24.018
But they forget the Awareness, the state of being aware, they forget that meditation straight away.

00:32:24.288 --> 00:32:29.627
The moment they sung them, they forget the reality because it's all about singing.

00:32:29.627 --> 00:32:30.961
It's all about showmanship.

00:32:31.020 --> 00:32:33.361
This is what Kabir Ji is telling us about.

00:32:33.631 --> 00:32:36.740
Then he says, they haven't heard the news of the Self.

00:32:37.010 --> 00:32:40.431
They're just singing, but they're not contemplating on the words.

00:32:40.701 --> 00:32:42.290
They don't know what the words mean.

00:32:42.560 --> 00:32:48.171
And then he says, the Hindu says Ram's dear to him, the Muslims say it's Rahim.

00:32:48.441 --> 00:32:50.391
They go to war and kill each other.

00:32:50.421 --> 00:32:52.340
No one knows the secret of things.

00:32:52.611 --> 00:32:56.480
They kill each other because they identify with a particular religion.

00:32:56.750 --> 00:32:58.340
The Hindu says the Hindu is the best.

00:32:58.340 --> 00:33:00.171
The Muslim says the Muslim is the best.

00:33:00.298 --> 00:33:01.488
They both cause harm.

00:33:01.758 --> 00:33:06.347
And none of them know that the secret of things is there's no Hindu and there's no Muslim.

00:33:06.617 --> 00:33:07.278
There's no east.

00:33:07.278 --> 00:33:08.057
There's no west.

00:33:08.327 --> 00:33:12.212
They do their rounds from door to door, selling their magical formulas.

00:33:12.232 --> 00:33:14.853
Remember they're methods, they're magical formulas.

00:33:15.123 --> 00:33:17.103
They're vain about their reputations.

00:33:17.262 --> 00:33:19.942
I am this, I am a pandit, I am a Brahmin.

00:33:20.022 --> 00:33:21.313
I am a scholar.

00:33:21.313 --> 00:33:21.942
I am this.

00:33:21.942 --> 00:33:22.722
I am that.

00:33:22.992 --> 00:33:24.073
I am this title.

00:33:24.343 --> 00:33:26.502
I am a Lama, all these things.

00:33:26.772 --> 00:33:30.603
This is all labels of reputation and they are so vain about it.

00:33:30.873 --> 00:33:31.982
I'm this title.

00:33:32.252 --> 00:33:34.833
That's why I am the one that knows more.

00:33:35.103 --> 00:33:36.002
That's vanity.

00:33:36.032 --> 00:33:37.803
What do you know if you're so vain?

00:33:38.073 --> 00:33:43.843
The sign of a true seeker or the true mystic is they're humble.

00:33:44.113 --> 00:33:45.615
They don't think they're everything.

00:33:45.885 --> 00:33:46.935
They don't think that way.

00:33:47.092 --> 00:33:48.261
And what reputation?

00:33:48.531 --> 00:33:50.362
Does the self have a reputation?

00:33:50.632 --> 00:33:52.672
Does that simple state have a reputation?

00:33:52.942 --> 00:33:54.231
No, not at all.

00:33:54.501 --> 00:33:55.852
It has no reputation.

00:33:56.122 --> 00:33:57.832
Therefore you don't need a title.

00:33:58.102 --> 00:34:05.011
Those that go after titles, that have all these titles in front of their name, they are vain, let go of those.

00:34:05.281 --> 00:34:07.922
Just keep the simple name you have, that your parents gave.

00:34:07.922 --> 00:34:16.766
There's no need to change your name to a Hindu name or to an Indian name or to an Islamic name or a Buddhist name or a Sikh name.

00:34:16.945 --> 00:34:18.326
You don't need to do any of that.

00:34:18.596 --> 00:34:21.835
What has that got to do with realization?

00:34:22.106 --> 00:34:24.096
Keep the name you have had at birth.

00:34:24.365 --> 00:34:27.295
Because this simple state is not about names.

00:34:27.565 --> 00:34:28.856
It never has been.

00:34:29.126 --> 00:34:32.036
All the students will drown with their teachers.

00:34:32.306 --> 00:34:37.076
Kabir Ji in another poem says the blind lead the blind, and this is exactly it.

00:34:37.346 --> 00:34:38.996
They will drown with their teachers.

00:34:39.266 --> 00:34:42.045
Their teachers are blind, they will go and drown.

00:34:42.315 --> 00:34:44.326
The students who are blind, they will also drown.

00:34:44.596 --> 00:34:46.096
They won't think for themselves.

00:34:46.365 --> 00:34:49.195
All they do is they get the mind of the teacher.

00:34:49.465 --> 00:34:55.885
And the mind of the teacher here thinks about the reputation, thinks about the formulas, thinks about how to sell things.

00:34:56.155 --> 00:34:58.255
Or they are businessmen or women.

00:34:58.525 --> 00:35:05.036
That's why he says at the last moment, they'll repent because they realize that they didn't get to that final, simple state.

00:35:05.306 --> 00:35:09.085
And repent, not in a way like a Christian or Abrahamic way.

00:35:09.356 --> 00:35:14.396
Repent as in regret that I had access to this and I didn't get there.

00:35:14.666 --> 00:35:16.976
I could see it yet, I ignored it.

00:35:17.246 --> 00:35:19.166
That's what they mean by repent.

00:35:19.195 --> 00:35:21.295
Not that they're gonna go to hell.

00:35:21.409 --> 00:35:24.478
No, that's not what Kabir Ji is talking about.

00:35:24.748 --> 00:35:28.798
Then Kabir Ji says, listen, you saintly men.

00:35:29.068 --> 00:35:30.599
Forget all this vanity.

00:35:30.869 --> 00:35:34.469
His compassion is that he wants them to realize this truth.

00:35:34.739 --> 00:35:38.148
I said it so many times, but nobody listens.

00:35:38.418 --> 00:35:40.668
You must merge into the simple state.

00:35:40.938 --> 00:35:41.599
Simply.

00:35:41.869 --> 00:35:43.458
He keeps the message simple.

00:35:43.728 --> 00:35:45.438
That's the sign of a true teacher.

00:35:45.708 --> 00:35:48.048
And he says, you must merge into the simple state.

00:35:48.094 --> 00:35:55.568
You must enter into that Awareness and then establish yourself in that Awareness, that formlessness and stay there.

00:35:55.838 --> 00:35:56.498
That's all.

00:35:56.768 --> 00:35:57.878
It's as simple as that.

00:35:57.929 --> 00:36:02.039
Nothing more, nothing more to do, nothing more to be.

00:36:02.309 --> 00:36:10.108
Nothing more to add, nothing more to subtract, nothing more to multiply, nothing more to divide, just simply be this.

00:36:10.378 --> 00:36:11.639
We'll do this final poem.

00:36:11.768 --> 00:36:14.938
It's very harsh but it's really amazing.

00:36:15.208 --> 00:36:18.028
I don't know what sort of Master you have.

00:36:18.298 --> 00:36:21.989
Is he deaf that the Mullah must screech from the mosque?

00:36:22.259 --> 00:36:27.719
Surely he can hear even the anklets that tinkle on an ant's feet.

00:36:27.989 --> 00:36:31.438
You count your beads, you smear your brow with marks.

00:36:31.619 --> 00:36:38.699
You grow long matted locks, but deep inside yourself, you carry the vicious dagger of apostasy.

00:36:38.969 --> 00:36:42.148
This isn't the way to attain the Master.

00:36:42.418 --> 00:36:44.668
So what Kabir Ji is saying, let's look at this.

00:36:44.938 --> 00:36:48.539
I don't know what sort of master you have.

00:36:48.809 --> 00:36:50.548
What is this true teaching you have?

00:36:50.639 --> 00:36:51.329
I don't know.

00:36:51.599 --> 00:36:55.498
What is this by you shouting is your God going to listen?

00:36:55.768 --> 00:37:02.789
Surely if your God is so great, then even the tinkling of the anklets on an ant's feet can be heard.

00:37:03.059 --> 00:37:05.648
The tapping of an ant's feet could be heard by this One.

00:37:05.648 --> 00:37:06.778
So why are you shouting?

00:37:07.048 --> 00:37:10.548
Or when you're chanting a mantra, why are you shouting that mantra for?

00:37:10.728 --> 00:37:11.809
Is your God deaf?

00:37:12.079 --> 00:37:13.608
Can your God not hear you?

00:37:13.878 --> 00:37:16.858
Is your God going to be proud of you chanting those mantras?

00:37:16.989 --> 00:37:18.369
You count your beads.

00:37:18.489 --> 00:37:20.048
You smear your brow with marks.

00:37:20.079 --> 00:37:24.278
Count your beads meaning you'll do the mantra 108 times.

00:37:24.548 --> 00:37:26.978
You color your brow.

00:37:27.248 --> 00:37:30.262
All that is merely an act of show.

00:37:30.532 --> 00:37:31.791
Yeah, it's showmanship.

00:37:32.061 --> 00:37:36.032
But deep inside you carry the vicious dagger of apostasy.

00:37:36.302 --> 00:37:37.411
Deep inside.

00:37:37.681 --> 00:37:46.891
Meaning that the vicious dagger of apostasy now what this means is not apostasy against a religion, the apostasy of not understanding who you really are.

00:37:47.101 --> 00:37:51.871
You betray your own self through these external showmanship.

00:37:52.141 --> 00:37:57.452
You are disloyal, you're faithless against your own inner self, your true self.

00:37:57.722 --> 00:38:06.387
Instead of going towards that realization that the Master wants to show you, that simple state, you rather have something that is more complex.

00:38:06.476 --> 00:38:10.456
You want the appearance of a Saint, but have none of the virtues of a Saint.

00:38:10.675 --> 00:38:13.536
Kabir Ji says, this isn't the way to attain the master.

00:38:13.596 --> 00:38:15.246
The master is that absolute knowledge.

00:38:15.246 --> 00:38:18.065
Remember we talked about that in the previous poems.

00:38:18.335 --> 00:38:20.315
That's what Kabir Ji is saying.

00:38:20.501 --> 00:38:26.291
If you really want to attain the way of the master, just be in that simple state that we discussed earlier.

00:38:26.561 --> 00:38:32.050
So that is the end of this episode, the wisdom of the mystics on Kabir Ji.

00:38:32.201 --> 00:38:33.820
I really enjoyed this episode.

00:38:33.820 --> 00:38:40.121
I really enjoyed talking about it, reading the poetry, it really felt like I was in satsang with you.

00:38:40.201 --> 00:38:43.221
It really felt that way and I really appreciate it.

00:38:43.521 --> 00:38:53.994
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00:38:54.177 --> 00:38:57.327
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00:38:57.597 --> 00:39:02.126
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00:39:02.186 --> 00:39:14.775
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00:39:14.925 --> 00:39:17.429
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00:39:23.925 --> 00:39:25.695
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00:39:25.809 --> 00:39:28.358
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00:39:28.628 --> 00:39:31.889
Thank you very much for listening and we'll end with the shanti mantra.

00:39:32.219 --> 00:39:38.889
Aum Shanti, Shanti, Shanti, Aum Peace, Peace, Peace.

00:39:39.159 --> 00:39:39.719
Namaste.